The last of my found rocks

Thought I'd start adding pics of what I'm doing.

Below you'll find wet and dry pictures of the last of my found rocks (click to see larger view). My daughter has far more but I'm itching to get working on stones that might sell.




All but the four in the top right have come from my back yard. They are from the falls of the Ohio state park.

The stone in the lower right hand corner and the one above it are marked for cutting in half.

Next up, trimmed to rough form.

More throughts on tripoli

Looking at earlier stones I worked I think I can see why the tripoli worked out fine.

My first stones were translucent and had silk/intrusions that didn't reach the surface of the stone. They also tended to be agate or feldspar.

The next large group had several stones with silk/intrusions that reached the surface, aggregated quartz stones (not a proper name, but the stones appear to be composed of small quartz crystal stuck together), and stones that were a mix of quartz and other material (most often thin black squares that I think are mica).

The end of my found rocks are a mix of translucent and opaque (a few look a little like marble).

I think the tripoli has issues with stones with silk/intrusions that reach the surface. In sanding, the diamond tends to reveal silk/intrusions that run deep and, with additional work, lessens them. The tripoli tends to widen the gaps. With additional work the tripoli does lessen them but it would take a great deal of work to remove them.

In the case of stones that have softer material mixed in, the tripoli attacks the softer while barely touching the harder. Additional work with the tripoli makes things worse.

At this point I think the tripoli creates more work with mixed material stones and stones that have silk/intrusions that reach the surface.

I think I'll use a heavier mix of tripoli for polishing to see if that will work better and to use it up faster so that I can move to diamond for my 1200 grit step.

Thoughts on tripoli and canvas disks

So far both the dura-tex and the canvas disks are holding up fine. They both cut well.

I did notice the canvas disks generate more heat. This caused me to pay more attention to how hot I get my stones and dop wax when dopping (a cool stone will form a weak bond and will come off if heated). Paying closer attention allows me to continue without real change. If it grows to be a problem I'd probably switch to a darker/stronger dopping wax.

I've noticed something with the tripoli and my found rocks. It works just fine with the feldspar and quartz but has problems with some of the other stones I picked up. Specifically the agate (?) pebbles with strong colored silk and quartz aggregate. I get no undercutting during grinding or sanding, but after a once-over with the tripoli, all sorts of undercutting. I found this very irritating on my last batch as I had a rock made up of white and clear quartz with black (mica?) silk throughout. It made for nice windows all over. Then the tripoli tore through what looks like mica leaving the quartz alone.

Now, nothing is lost because this is all found stone and I'm working on my hand skills. But, dang if it isn't irritating. That and I need to keep this in mind as I get closer to finishing off my found rock and start moving towards stones that I'll sell.

My experiences with found feldspar tells me the tripoli would be fine. But what of the emerald and corundum lapidary rough that I move towards? I've read that corundum has soft sides that cause pitting and its hardness indicates the need for diamond. But what of emerald?

What I find interesting is that lapidary rough is pretty cheap and if you look around there appears to be good rock out there.

Ehh, I'm getting ahead of myself. I've around 35 more found rocks to practice on and near that number of public mine stones along with the low grade moonstone I bought.

Then I can move to the 500cts of nice moonstone I have. Those are what I'll try selling on ebay.

----

Oh another thing I've determined with the diamond grit: It lasts much longer than I had ever hoped.

I would appear that the diamond grit available in the 80s when Riggle wrote his book was pretty weak. He suggested 1.5-2g for a 6" disk. Well, I filled the disk up with around 1.5g and on use found I had much runoff that I ended up smearing on new stones worked and then on the disk itself after I was done. I had read that I should expect runoff the first few times as the diamond found its way into pockets.

So, no big deal.

But on reuse I thought I had to recharge. Not so! I've not recharged the disks for around 20 stones now. I plan on following something I read on a faceting site: recharge when cutting slows.

So, in the end, diamond is very cheap to use.

I think I'll order a couple more uncharged canvas pads and some 1200 & 14K grit for stones that the tripoli can't deal with.

EUR/USD - Watching
GBP/USD - Watching.
USD/JPY - Stopped out on long 116.61. Loss diff 432. Want to check a few more things before dropping this pair
AUD/USD - Watching.
USD/CAD - Watching.
EUR/JPY - No change on short 166.91, stop 167.71.

My desktop puked last week and I was forced to rebuild. As a consequence I lost my liteforex demo setup and I didn't save the password on that account.

I created a new demo account to continue to test there.

I'm also trying to get the hang of EFX's software. Their "pro" software locks up something awful and their base software is pretty barebones. I had been thinking of just going with MB Trading if I had to go with the barebones trading software. But EFX looks to be going towards charting software in the near future.

-------

EUR/USD - Stopped out on 1.4202. Loss diff of 240. Watching
GBP/USD - Watching.
USD/JPY - No change on long 116.61, stop 112.29, limit 117.25.
AUD/USD - Watching.
USD/CAD - Watching.
EUR/JPY - Entered short on 166.91, stop 167.71.

Success

The 220 grit sanding/smoothing step was exactly what I was looking for and the new method of grinding to marks on the top make for symmetrical stones with a good bezel line.

I'm well pleased.

I determined beyond any shadow of a doubt that the silicon carbide sanding pads are garbage. After sanding with 220 and 360 grit my stones did not have any ridges and were very nice looking. Then came the 600 grit sanding step. I had three 600 grit silicon carbide pads left. They put facets and ridges all over my stones. My irritation bordered on pure rage at my best efforts so far being defaced. Well, luckily I had ordered 600 diamond grit with the 360 grit and charged up a pad. The 600 diamond grit cleaned it up quick enough.

Then came the polishing. The tripoli shined up the stones on par with my normal two step polish of tripoli and cerium oxide. The cerium oxide wasn't able to shine it better than tripoli alone.

This makes sense based on something I read. One of my cab books makes the point that old timers were able to get a fine polish with just tripoli. That they had no need for finer grits.

Seems to me that if I can do a good enough job sanding, the tripoli is good enough for the found rocks I'm using now (feldspar, agate pebbles (not really sure what these pebbles are), and "quartzy" type stones). I'm planning on only using the cerium oxide for stones with poorly sanded spots.

Something else I found is that fine diamond grit can cut/grind as well as polish. I found this out on some stones where I was lazy on the fine grind step. I just kept to the edge of the pad and used moderate to heavy pressure.

So far the shapes I've been cutting are ovals, rounds, and thin ellipses. The ovals and rounds stay on the dop well enough but the thin ellipses do not. I suspect that this is caused by the high domes I've been cutting. Going forward I'll cut low to medium domes on that shape.

High domes can look nice but very high ones are a pain to smooth. I think I'll stop cutting that type.

Dura-tex pads and 220grit arrived

Will be trying them out this evening.

However, something irritating came up before the order came in.

In looking through Arrowhead Lapidary & Supply's catalog after ordering the dura-tex I came across both the micro-tex and crystalpad line.

The crystalpad line by Crystalite looked to be a direct competitor of Lapcraft. I went with the Lapcraft dura-tex due to it being pushed as durable. After the whole thing with the silicon carbide sanding pads, I wanted something that would last.

But, Lapcraft's micro-tex was sold with this as part of its description: "not as dense or durable as dura-tex, but it is more versatile. It is also a more universal pad that accepts a charge using finer grit sizes 260-1800". Both the catalog and website indicate that the dura-tex pad takes a charge from 180-1800.

It was clear that the dura-tex was more durable and took a coarser charge. But I had no way to quantify the micro-tex being more versatile or universal. So, I wrote Lapcraft by way of their website to ask what they meant by those terms on Tuesday. I've yet to hear back from them.

hmmm

After my order arrived I examined the dura-tex pad and noticed two things: #1 the label on the package said the pad was for grits 260-1800 and #2 how very like the uncharged disks (ordered from Arrowhead) they were.

Regarding #1 -- you'll note that is the same grit range as the micro-tex. That makes me leery of buying any more of their products.

Regarding #2 -- I decided to get my loupe out and compare them.

The Arrowhead uncharged disk is (from what I can tell) a resin coated canvas weave with 1mm x 0.1mm (approx.) pockets all over its surface. The dura-tex is a plastic disk with 1mm round divots all over its surface. The uncharged disk is firmer then the dura-tex.

I suspect that the larger divots on the dura-tex will hold more grit and will make the pad cut more aggressively. At this point I've seen no real wear on the uncharged disks.

My thinking so far is this:

• if the dura-tex does not cut more aggressively than the canvas disks, I see little point in paying the $5 for it over the ~$1 canvas disks
  
• unless the dura-tex pads last more than five times longer than the canvas disks I see no reason to pay more
  
• based on Lapcraft's lack of response, I'm more inclined to look at Crystalite's products
• Crystalite's pads are being pushed as "engineered to eliminate orange peel and undercutting". If those problems come up I'll look into them.
  

Along the lines of both Crystalite's and Lapcraft's pads, I've been wondering what would be used for grits finer than 50K. The best I can figure is resin coated canvas. This is what lead me to believe that canvas pads are not aggressive cutters. I'm not sure at this point, but if they aren't I plan on looking at Crystalite's pads over Lapcraft's.

A few more thoughts on sanding

Well, after finding out that sanding with diamond is pretty easy and cost effective, I'm willing to look at additional sanding steps.

The reason this is coming to mind again is because of all the ridges in my last batch of stones. Yes, if I had worked smaller batches I'd have been able to get rid of the worst of the ridges, but not all.

Looking though Riggle's diamond abrasives book again I noticed that he suggests sanding with near the same grit size as the fine grind (280). He states "The cutting action, however, is not the same because the smoothing wheel or disk has the cushioned surface, which has a gentler effect. With this grit, the scratches, plus any bumps or tiny flat spots that may have been left by the grinding wheel are smoothed away". That right there describes my complaint.

So not only have I ordered 220 grit diamond paste (closest to 280) but I'm going to try out a dura-tex pad. I can't tell from the descriptions if it is more laplike (stiff and flat) or more like a pad. However, it appears to hold the diamond grit better which might translate to more aggressive sanding.

If that works out, I'll replace the other sanding disks with dura-tex pads as they wear out.

I'm curious about polishing with diamond, but I don't see the point in the additional cost before I'm able to sell my end product.

Checking out MB trading. It is an ECN which means that they won't take the other side of your trade. Not liking their software all that much, but that they are a ECN is very appealing.

EUR/USD - No change on 1.4202, stop 1.4442, limit 1.3847. Looks like a loser.
GBP/USD - I did get out too early. Watching.
USD/JPY - No change on long 116.61, stop 112.29, limit 117.25.
AUD/USD - Watching.
USD/CAD - Watching.

Trial and error is useful but frustrating

My diamond grinding book arrived and I bought 360 and 600 grit diamond paste and two uncharged disks. The diamond worked as advertised. I sanded eleven stones before I had to recharge the disk. After eighteen stones it does not look worn. I'm well pleased about that.

However, I'm less than pleased with three errors I made:

1. I tried to do a huge batch at a time
2. I insisted on trying to work little stones in my fingers instead of dopping them
3. I experimented with my polishing

Re: #1 -- I decided to gather all of the found rocks that we'd collected so far. After cleaning and using the trim saw on the first batch (one more batch of found rocks before I get into the rocks we've found at the mines) I had sixty-four stones ready for the 100 grit wheel. I had been trying a new method that would get my stones closer to being sellable. After grinding forty-eight on the 100 grit I figured out how to get closer to that goal and that my current stones had domes that were too narrow and high. That is the first problem with doing large batches. If you try to do things in a repeatable fashion and you make a mistake, all of the items in the given batch will have the same mistake. Correcting the mistake would mean removing a great deal of material. So, even though nothing was lost and I did learn how to improve my method, it is incredibly frustrating to have 48 stones with the same error. The second problem with large batches is focus. After 1-4 hours of repetitive work I tend to go cross-eyed. Ridges and bumps that show up during 100 and 220 grit grinding are often small. But they stand out clearly after prepolish. The more I did, the more I missed.

Very frustrating.

Re: #2 -- Dopping stones is a bit of work... especially a large number of stones. Normally, it is easier to grind while holding the stone in my fingers. But once the stone gets to be under a centimeter, it is very difficult. Plus I manged to grind away around a third of the fingernails on my index and middle fingers of both hands. In the end my smaller stones had many ridges.

Re: #3 -- I had read that faceters sometimes mixed their diamond grit in petroleum jelly instead of oil. I had been mixing my polish in water and painting it onto the felt pad. As that was a bit messy I thought mixing it with petroleum jelly might be better. It wasn't. Best as I can tell, once the water drys up on a given polishing run the polish acts like it is bonded with the felt. This makes the polishing action much more aggressive. When the polish is mixed with petroleum jelly it never gets aggressive and the stone never gets a proper shine.

So, I now have eighteen stones with a crummy polish and thirty more with the error mentioned above.

grr

Might as well write down my current method (which is nothing more than a hodgepodge of what I've read).

1. Trim saw
2. Rough forming
3. Fine forming
4. Sanding/smoothing
5. Polishing

#1 -- Use the trim saw to get around 1.5-2mm of the drawn outline.
#2 -- Dop small stones! While holding the stone so that its bottom is on top, grind to around half a millimeter of the outline then flatten the bottom. Then grind the edge flat (about a 1/4mm from the outline). Measure and mark off the top of the bezel, which should be one third the height of the stone. "Mark the top of the stone in thirds from end to end and side to side"*. Then make a dot in the center of that marking. While continuing to hold the stone with the bottom on top, grind to around a quarter millimeter of both the bezel line and the line drawn on the top of the stone. Once the entire top of the stone has been ground that way, grind to the dot at a lesser angle. Lastly remove any large ridges or facets before rinsing off the stone.
#3 -- Lightly grind all over the sides and top of the stone to improve later polishing. Remove all ridges, facets, and bumps because sanding/smoothing will not remove them. If there are any major errors found at this stage (like an asymmetrical shape), go back to the 100 grit.
#4 -- Being careful to avoid the bezel line, sand all over the stone to improve later polishing. It is at this point ridges that were missed during steps 2-3 will begin to stand out. If you find them, go back to the 220 wheel.
#5 -- Same procedure for both tripoli and cerium oxide: mix polish with water and dab onto pre-moistened felt pad. Starting on the outside while the pad and polish are wet, use moderate pressure and twist and rock the stone. As the pad drys move towards the center of the pad. When you feel the pad tugging at the stone pay attention to heat and stay near the center of the pad. Do this all over the stone for a dull shine with the tripoli and a good luster with the cerium oxide. Note: if you are too near the outer edge of the pad when it starts to dry, you will get pitting and an odd "flow" of stone in the area worked. The only way to get rid of that is to go back to the sanding step.


At this point I'm going to try batches of five stones and finish off the eighteen stones that have been rough formed. Then I can test out grinding to both bezel and top markings.


* Cabochon Cutting by Jack Cox

EUR/USD - No change on 1.4202, stop 1.4442, limit 1.3847.
GBP/USD - Limited out on long 2.0141. Profit diff 284. But I think I got out too early. Not sure.
USD/JPY - Moved limit on long 116.61, stop 112.29, limit 117.25. This is looking like a bad trade. Even if I had used a limit entry, the exit signal happened on a big reversal. Update: I've removed the limit on this. Looking at it a bit more, the price may be fixing to jump very high... or not.
AUD/USD - Watching.
USD/CAD - Watching.

EUR/USD - Short limit activated on 10/11 at 1.4202, stop 1.4442, limit 1.3847.
GBP/USD - Moved stop and limit on long 2.0141, stop 1.9932, limit 2.0425. Still getting mixed signals.
USD/JPY - Moved stop on long 116.61, stop 112.29, limit 121.84.
AUD/USD - Watching.
USD/CAD - Watching.

Some thoughts on sanding

Still waiting for my diamond grinding book to arrive. So, I started googling around and pondering sanding disks, pads, and grit.

It makes sense that the 6" carbide sanding disks wear so quickly. Only out on the edge is there 6" of running space. All in all, sanding disks have very little surface area and must wear out quickly.

So, if a sanding belt can make use of its entire length, I think it reasonable to think the belt will last at least twice the time that a disk would. Ignoring that the old timers sanded dry, I think this explains why they used equipment with very long belts. I think the belts got shorter once diamond got more popular.

Something interesting I read on sanding with diamond is that as the diamond sanding belt is used up, it cuts slower but not finer. That's something that makes carbide difficult to sand with. It becomes finer as it is worn down.

Another thing I read was that diamond grit is cheaper than a diamond belt but is harder to work with. Considering that diamond belts are pretty pricey, I think I'm willing to work harder.

Last thing I found while googling around -- the reason that a soft backing is used when sanding cabs is to avoid making facets. So, in using such a light touch on the 400 grit, did I make an artificial flat lap? Thing is I can't push too hard either or else the carbide is used up in under two minutes and I risk hitting the backing plate and making facets that way.

Seems there is a window of use with the carbide wheels

Starting sometime after 1.5 hours I noticed a good deal of green clay coming off of the wheel.

I suspect that the water gets too far into the wheel around that time and it starts eating away at a much faster rate.

EUR/USD - Set a short limit at 1.4202, stop 1.4442, limit 1.3847.
GBP/USD - Moved stop on long 2.0141, stop 1.9855, limit 2.0978. Some signals are indicating that I should offset and others are saying to hold o.O
USD/JPY - No change on long 116.61, stop 112.05, limit 121.84. Hmm, seems like it wants to go long now.
AUD/USD - Watching. May give a short this week.
USD/CAD - Watching. May give a weak long this week.

I think I need to use diamond grit for sanding

My next stones showed me something interesting.

I used a very light touch on the 400 grit sandpaper and used only one disk for all six.

Well, when I tried to sand on the 600 grit and went through three pads on one stone I realized what was wrong. I was too tired when I thought I was finished with the 400 grit but ended up leaving many ridges and tables. So, I went back to the 400 grit and finished up.

This tells me that I do need two sanding steps.

Also, considering one sanding pad is only good for 1-2 stones, carbide sanding pads aren't cost effective.

I'll know more after I go through the diamond abrasives book.

I find a lot of truth in this link

It's frustrating.

I found some things I didn't like with Bush after his first term, but when Kerry came up as the Dem candidate I felt I had no other choice (like this time around if it's Hillery). Except now, the Republicans seem to have fully joined with the Democrats in only fielding people from the ruling class. By ruling class I mean people that have little to no connection to the middle class. Any connection displayed to the middle class is nothing more than smoke and mirrors designed only to get votes and money.

In my amateur's view of history I've seen this before. Both parties like the lower class because it is easily controlled with incentives. The lower class lacks the ability/desire to be free actors in life. The upper class does everything in its power to keep more households from joining its ranks as that would mean its influence would become watered down. The upper class *hates* dealing with direct competition.

"Competition is sin." - John D. Rockefeller

"If one understands that socialism is not a share-the-wealth program, but is in reality a method to consolidate and control the wealth, then the seeming paradox of super-rich men promoting socialism becomes no paradox at all. Instead, it becomes logical, even the perfect tool of power-seeking megalomaniacs. Communism, or more accurately, socialism, is not a movement of the downtrodden masses, but of the economic elite." - Gary Allen, author

That leaves the middle class. It is what moves society forward. The middle class, in effect, is society/culture.

What I've seen in other countries that have done well for themselves only to up and die in under a century is the ruling class (aristocracies, theocracies, and plutocracies) kills off (literally or through sanctions) the middle class.

In the US and too many other countries, I'm seeing the middle class having less and less of a say in how things get done. I'm seeing in the US the ever increasing debt load carried by people who should know better. I'm seeing the middle class killing itself through manufactured need for shiny toys that have no use beyond limited entertainment.

Bread and circuses.

Makes me worry.

My wheel dresser arrived

Worked nicely.

Now that I'm using light pressure on the wheel I notice no real wear.

I made my first attempt at using my templates. My thinking is that if I get that down, symmetric cutting will soon follow.

I found this to be very difficult. The four I tried ended up smaller than the template. I tried leaving one millimeter but working the bulges took too much off. I'll try leaving more space next time.

Waiting on the 600 grit paper and the diamond book to arrive. With a light touch I'm able to make the sandpaper last longer, but I keep running into little facets when the paper is near worn. I'm leaning towards sanding with diamond at this point.

EUR/USD - Watching. May give short this week.
GBP/USD - Moved stop on long 2.0141, stop 1.9768, limit 2.0978. Some indications that this will not hit my limit and I'll have to offset. Question: move stop real close?
USD/JPY - No change on long 116.61, stop 112.05, limit 121.84. Based on my other trades with this pair, I will stop watching it if it doesn't trade well.
AUD/USD - Limited out on long 0.8300. Profit diff 463. Should have set limit higher (7+ grid points up from 8/12 bar). Watching.
USD/CAD - Watching

The 220 grit wheel arrived

Yay!

I found the technique I used with the 100 grit stone to be frustratingly slow. But considering how alarmed I was at the speed the 100 grit cut when the stone was to form, this wasn't a bad thing.

I'm now sure that a sanding step is needed. I was able to get rid of most of the ridges but not all. Even if the cutting was slower, I found that if I persisted at trying to eliminate the ridges on the 220 wheel, I ended up making more ridges and taking off more than I wanted.

Use of the 220 wheel and a lighter touch prolonged the lifespan of the carbide sanding disks, but not by much.

I found the 400 grit to be too aggressive. I attribute this to all the grinding on the 220 wheel. In general, the closer to form I get the rock the faster any given grit will cut. The 400 grit disk was not anywhere this aggressive when it was dealing with much more carry over work from the 220 grit sanding disk. I have a few more 400 grit disks to test this assumption.

The 600 grit disks worked well. I suspect that they may work better when they are not correcting the problems introduced with the 400 grit disks. I'm irritated that I screwed up my last order and only bought two disks. I will have to get some more.

My question now is: Do I test a grit somewhere between 400 and 600 grit? Or try something between 600 and 1000 grit?

I'm well pleased with the tripoli. After finishing with it last night I brought out a finish similar to the cerium oxide finish I got on my first stone. When I moved to the cerium oxide after the tripoli I achieved a finish that displayed a pleasing depth in the stone. One stone in particular shows clear layers of cream with a window into a transparent center. I can only imagine what these stones would look like if I had worked the bottoms.

So, what is my progression like?

1st stone: Some rounded facet like tables all over the cab with a nice shine

2nd through 3rd: No faceting but not symmetrical. Some stones have a dome that have a full curve on one side and a shallow one on the other. One's edge is a nice oval on one side and has sort of a fatter bottom on the other. Nice polish on all.

4th stone: This was a problem stone that I didn't think I'd do well on but still wanted to try. It was some grayish white soft material with mica throughout. I tried working it from the edge as this caught all the mica chips on the edge giving a glittery appearance. The soft stone cut alarmingly fast and I was only able to bring up a soft luster on the dome. The attractive glitter does not show up in the finished product. The next time I find a rock with many mica chips in it, I'll work it from the side where the full face of the mica chips show as those edges took a better polish.

As I'm concerned about the state of my 100 grit wheel, further grinding will have to wait until my dresser arrives. However, my templates (from a different supplier) have arrived and I'll try my hand with the trim saw.

Update:

After looking around it appears that the finer carbide sanding pads come only in 400 and 600 grit.

So I'm going to order a bunch of 600 grit.

Considering how it is looking like I will be able to get away with one sanding step, I'm also going to order "How to Use Diamond Abrasive" by Riggle.

Hmm, that reminds me, I should mention the books I picked up along with my grinder.

"Cabochon Cutting" and "Advanced Cabochon Cutting" by Cox
"The Art of Gem Cutting" by Dake

All of these books are quite dated (especially the Dake book). However, what modern books I've found on this subject tend to have a great deal of fluff. Even if they are dated they still have useful hints and pointers. I'd have to say both of the Cox books have more useful info on cabs.

The real issue on cab books is that beyond a few specifics, the actual act of cutting and polishing cabs appears to vary greatly between cutters. An example I've seen several times is how cutter A claims one polishing agent is the best for whatever stone. While cutter B is unable to get any luster from cutter A's polishing agent, but gets wonderful results from a different agent.

So it would appear that anyone who wants to learn to cut cabs must put in time and effort actually cutting stones in order to discover what works best for him.

My first grinder

So, what to do with this rough stone?

Well, in googling around I found out a few things:

• As mentioned the other day, public mines are like a lottery and should really be approached as a family fun activity.
• Faceted stones do the best in general (i.e. More setting options and does well unset) but adequate rough is very pricey to just practice on. Synthetic is more reasonable but doesn't sell well.
• Cabochon (aka "cabs") cuts use cheaper rough and is generally thought of as "easy".
• Faceting equipment is very pricey. Generally the price goes along with precision. A skilled faceter can work around imprecise equipment but a rank amateur (i.e. me) can not.
• Cabbing equipment is pricey, but not as bad as faceting equipment. Looking at the lower price range there appears to be some junk mixed in with adequate equipment. The adequate equipment is cheap because it is inconvenient. By that I mean that the work zone in cramped, the wheels are thin, or only one wheel can be mounted on the arbor at one time.
• It is generally thought that, at the very least, a hobbist cutter will be able to pay for their hobby with what they make.
  

After some thought I decided that faceting equipment was too expensive to just try out. Especially, if I have no idea if I'm any good at it.

Low end cab equipment costs a few hundred dollars (under $400 if you look around). The all metal models have ok resale values if you find you can't cab very well. The main issue with low end cab equipment is inconvence. If you go with the plain arbor unit you'll have multiple wheels (two in the smaller units) to move to without slowing down, but no trim saw (trim saws save wear and tear on your wheels and can carve up small slabs). Units with a built in trim saw tend to be cramped in front of the wheel and allow only one wheel at a time (meaning you have to take time to switch wheels/sanding pads when you're ready for them).

I decided on the "Rock Rascal" model TM. It comes with a trim saw, 100 grit carbide wheel, 220 grit sand pad, felt polishing pad, mounting head for the pads, and a rubber backer for the pads.

Note on distributers: spend some time in pricing your equipment. You will find very large price differences for the same item at different sites (sometimes by several hundred dollars). I went with the cheapest I could find. That was a mistake. The invoice indicated that they were doing a week long inventory and wouldn't ship. Then it was back ordered. In the end it took about a month to get my grinder. It is near two months now and the last parts of my order have not arrived (a loupe, scribe, and templates). So if you do go with the cheapest distributer, you may just get what you get.

I had ordered some rough moonstone on ebay to go along with what was found at the public mines. Here too, don't go super cheap. Find common rough (like moonstone) that is pretty cheap to begin with and then be willing to pay a bit more. Two examples: #1 I first bought a pound of cheap moonstone for a little over $10. It had little flash or much usable stone. #2 I then bought 500ct of moonstone for the same price. Nearly all of it has nice electric blue flashes and is very usable.

But now that I had my grinder I didn't want my first attempts to be with my bought stone or the public mine stone. Luckly I had a substitute. My daughter has taken to bringing me stones that she finds. NC is pretty neat in that there are all sorts of interesting rocks just lying around. So I had a number of feldspar looking pebbles (translucent creamy colored stones that look stream smoothed).

My first grinding attempt was a learning experiance. Specifically, carbide sanding pads have a *very* short lifespan. I had bought some 400grit and 600grit sanding pads to go along with the base rock rascal. Every pad was spent before I was done with the stone. Around 5 minutes of useful life.

Now considering that the 100 grit wheel is used to get the stone formed roughly into shape and the 220 grit (sandpaper or wheel) is where the real work is done (all other work is smoothing in preparation for polishing), this would have me buying a ton of 220 grit sandpaper. Not to mention that the grinder only came with one 220 grit paper. I simply had no idea how very short a lifespan they had.

So, a 220 grit wheel is an absolute must with a rock rascal type setup.

Something I didn't like about the carbide sandpaper is that when the grit wore out in one area it was still ok in another. This caused some facet like aspects on my first stone. I'm pretty sure that using a 220 grit wheel will help with this, but it still bothers me. There are two other options available: diamond grit on a pad or diamond sandpaper. I'm going to use the carbide sandpaper again when my 220 wheel arrives. If I continue to have issues I'll look into the diamond grit. The diamond sandpaper is awful expensive and I have no idea if it can be recharged.

I had bought several grits of sandpaper the first time around thinking the coarse wheel and sandpaper would leave gouges. This wasn't the case. All grinding left smooth areas. Also, the closer I got to the desired form the faster the grit cut. Sometimes too fast. This left me thinking that I might want to try to get as much of the work done on the wheels as possible and then try just one sanding ~600 grit. If I can get down to one sanding I'd feel better about the costs of using diamond grit. But I just won't have a good idea until my 220 grit wheel arrives.

I used cerium oxide for my first stone and it worked pretty well. This time around I'm planning on prepolishing with tripoli. Tripoli has a grit of somewhere around 1000-1200.

So, if I had it to do over again:

Rock Rascal TM
Trim saw lubricant
220 grit carbide wheel (must have)
400 grit carbide sandpaper (not sure if needed)
600 grit carbide sandpaper (compare with diamond grit if this is the only sanding)
Tripoli with additional felt pad (haven't used at the time of this writing)
Cerium oxide (I suspect any general polish would work)
Carbide wheel dresser (needed with carbide wheels)
Dop wax (didn't use the first time which resulted in limited control)
Dops - various diameters of dowel 3-4" long (pretty much anything can be used)
1" wide paintbrush (for polish... get one per type of polish)
Dop wax preparation (I use old cans on the stove)
Templates (to form stones for commercial settings (not needed at first))
x10 Loupe (not needed at first)

Note on the wheel dresser: I suspect I used too much pressure on my first attempt as some uneveness has developed. This makes it hard to grind well. Remember - light pressure on the wheels.

At present, I've ground four other stones on the 100 grit wheel and am waiting for the 220 grit wheel to arrive. I think I'm catching on to working the coarse wheel as I can get the stone near to sanding ready. The thing that threw me off was how fast the coarse wheel ate into the stone when only ridges were left. I caught myself from cutting away too much, but I did cut more than I wanted on a couple of the new stones.

How I found out about stone cutting

In my daughter's fourth year she started to become interested in rocks. Very interested.

Mrs. Bear and I took this to be simple curiosity at first, but it wasn't so.

I suggested we find a museum with a large crystal exhibit and Mrs. Bear agreed. However, once she started poking around she found that NC is a gemstone dense state. She noted that there were several public mines in the state. So we picked a little one that was nearby and headed out.

My girl was enraptured. Generally, I'm lucky to get 10-15 minutes of good focus from her. That first day of sluicing the rocks... she was intent on the task for a full three hours. Amazing.

I became interested in how to make money on the stones. Heh.

To make a long story short, we hit a few public mines near to the house but generally just for my girl. Reading up in the archives here it became clear that #1 most public mines are "enriched" (operators introduce outside stone of little value to the dirt) and #2 that it is a lot like a lottery. By "lottery" I mean that it is highly unlikely that you'll find anything of real value (otherwise the mine wouldn't be public).

Still, my girl loves it and it got me interested in lapidary.

Next up, my first grinder.

EUR/USD - Limited out on long 1.3671. Profit diff 434. Watching
GBP/USD - Moved stop on long 2.0141, stop 1.9708, limit 2.0978
USD/JPY - No change on long 116.61, stop 112.05, limit 121.84
AUD/USD - No change on long 0.8300, stop 0.7850, limit 0.8763
USD/CAD - Watching

EUR/USD - Moved stop on long 1.3671, stop 1.3452, limit 1.4104
GBP/USD - Moved stop on long 2.0141, stop 1.9680, limit 2.0978
USD/JPY - No change on long 116.61, stop 112.05, limit 121.84
AUD/USD - No change on long 0.8300, stop 0.7850, limit 0.8763
USD/CAD - Watching. Starting to look like I could have gone short on the 8/12 bar

Today

Tuesday Morning

EUR/USD - Moved stop on long 1.3671, stop 1.3387, limit 1.4104
GBP/USD - Moved stop on long 2.0141, stop 1.9635, limit 2.0978
USD/JPY - No change on long 116.61, stop 112.05, limit 121.84. This may end up a loser. Need to check on my CCI.
AUD/USD - Moved stop on long 0.8300, stop 0.7850, limit 0.8763
USD/CAD - Watching.

I'm thinking I'm going to try some entry stops next time around as well.

EUR/USD - No change on long 1.3671, stop 1.3220, limit 1.4104
GBP/USD - No change on long 2.0141, stop 1.9435, limit 2.0978
USD/JPY - No change on long 116.61, stop 112.05, limit 121.84
AUD/USD - No change on long 0.8300, stop 0.7725, limit 0.8763
USD/CAD - Thought about it some more and the monthly chart won't work as trades span years. Watching.

It does not appear that I can use the CCI to exit safely. I need to assess better limits.

Testing limits:

EUR/USD - 4 grids from signal start
GBP/USD - 4.25 grids from signal start
USD/JPY - 5 grids from signal start (although this last one went down 11... not sure why. Perhaps add to position and move limit when there is a zigzag in the +/- 100 section of the CCI?)
AUD/USD - 4 grids from signal start (around 7 when the SAR is far from the price)

EUR/USD - Entered on long 1.3671, stop 1.3220, limit 1.4104
GBP/USD - Entered on long 2.0141, stop 1.9435, limit 2.0978
USD/JPY - Entered on long 116.61, stop 112.05, limit 121.84
AUD/USD - Entered on long 0.8300, stop 0.7725, limit 0.8763
USD/CAD - Offset long 1.0669. Loss 150. Switching to monthly chart.

It is very clear that my limits were too close. I think I can use the CCI to figure good exit points but the reason I stopped using it was that the price reversed quickly on the daily charts. Perhaps the weekly charts would be better?

EUR/USD - watching
GBP/USD - watching
USD/JPY - watching
AUD/USD - watching
USD/CAD - Moved stop on long 1.0669, stop 1.0385, limit 1.1013

Keeping an eye on the prices. eur/usd and aud/usd look like I could have set the limit much lower.

EUR/USD - Limited out on short 1.3772 (on 8/15). Profit diff 287
GBP/USD - Limited out on short 2.0298 (on 8/15). Progit diff 399
USD/JPY - Got antsy on 8/16 and stopped my short 118.50. Profit diff 185
AUD/USD - Limited out on short 0.8568 (8/16). Profit diff 540.
USD/CAD - No change on long 1.0669, stop 1.0354, limit 1.1013. Same as usd/jpy

EUR/USD - Moved stop on short 1.3772, stop 1.3840, limit 1.3485
GBP/USD - Moved stop on short 2.0298, stop 2.0632, limit 1.9899
USD/JPY - Moved stop on short 118.50, stop 120.63, limit 112.23. Moving close to an end and I need to watch it closely.
AUD/USD - Moved stop on short 0.8568, stop 0.8785, limit 0.8028
USD/CAD - Moved stop on long 1.0669, stop 1.0354, limit 1.1013. Same as usd/jpy

EUR/USD - No change on short 1.3772, stop 1.3850, limit 1.3485
GBP/USD - Entered on short 2.0298, stop 2.0635, limit 1.9899
USD/JPY - Moved stop on short 118.50, stop 121.72, limit 112.23
USD/CHF - Stopped out on long 1.2043. Loss diff 144. I won't follow this pair.
AUD/USD - Entered on short 0.8568, stop 0.8871, limit 0.8028
USD/CAD - No change on long 1.0669, stop 1.0339, limit 1.1013

EUR/USD - No change on short 1.3772, stop 1.3850, limit 1.3485
GBP/USD - Watching
USD/JPY - No change on short 118.50, stop 122.76, limit 112.23
USD/CHF - No change on long 1.2043, stop 1.1889, limit 1.2507
AUD/USD - Watching. May enter short later
USD/CAD - No change on long 1.0669, stop 1.0339, limit 1.1013

EUR/USD - No change on short 1.3772, stop 1.3850, limit 1.3485
GBP/USD - Daily is indicating long and weekly is indicating short. Watching
USD/JPY - No change on short 118.50, stop 122.76, limit 112.23
USD/CHF - Stopped out on long 1.2059. Loss diff 55. Switching to weekly chart. Entered on long 1.2043, stop 1.1889, limit 1.2507
AUD/USD - Acting just like gbp/usd. Watching
USD/CAD - No change on long 1.0669, stop 1.0339, limit 1.1013

EUR/USD - No change on short 1.3772, stop 1.3850, limit 1.3485
GBP/USD - Watching
USD/JPY - No change on short 118.50, stop 122.76, limit 112.23
USD/CHF - No change on long 1.2059, stop 1.2004, limit 1.2185
AUD/USD - Watching
USD/CAD - No change on long 1.0669, stop 1.0339, limit 1.1013

EUR/USD - Moved stop on short 1.3772, stop 1.3850, limit 1.3485
GBP/USD - Something looks odd about this... not sure what. If I had entered when the daily indicated, I'd be happy right now. As it is, it looks like this short will be short lived. Watching for now.
USD/JPY - Moved stop on short 118.50, stop 122.76, limit 112.23
USD/CHF - Moved stop on long 1.2059, stop 1.2004, limit 1.2185
AUD/USD - Acting like gbp/usd. Watching
USD/CAD - Entered on long 1.0669, stop 1.0339, limit 1.1013

EUR/USD - No change on short 1.3772, stop 1.3875, limit 1.3485
GBP/USD - Same pattern as the other day. Watching.
USD/JPY - Limited out on short 121.24. Profit diff 254. Entered on short 118.50, stop 123.66, limit 112.23
USD/CHF - Moved stop on long 1.2059, stop 1.1994, limit 1.2185
EUR/CHF - Watching
AUD/USD - Watching
USD/CAD - Stopped out on short 1.0564. Profit diff 92. Will start using weekly chart on this pair.

EUR/USD - No change on short 1.3772, stop 1.3875, limit 1.3485
GBP/USD - Daily is indicating short and weekly is saying a short is coming. Going to watch a bit more.
USD/JPY - No change on short 121.24, stop 123.67, limit 118.70
USD/CHF - Moved stop on long 1.2059, stop 1.1983, limit 1.2185
EUR/CHF - Watching
AUD/USD - Watching
USD/CAD - Moved stop on short 1.0564, stop 1.0472, limit 1.0335. Weekly indicates the short will end soon. Not so on the daily.

EUR/USD - No change on short 1.3772, stop 1.3875, limit 1.3485
GBP/USD - Watching
USD/JPY - No change on short 121.24, stop 123.67, limit 118.70
USD/CHF - Moved stop on long 1.2059, stop 1.1972, limit 1.2185
EUR/CHF - Watching
AUD/USD - Watching
USD/CAD - Moved stop on short 1.0564, stop 1.0482, limit 1.0335. Price is moving away from SAR. Limit was almost hit on last bar.

EUR/USD - No change on short 1.3772, stop 1.3875, limit 1.3485
GBP/USD - Watching
USD/JPY - No change on short 121.24, stop 123.67, limit 118.70
USD/CHF - Moved stop on long 1.2059, stop 1.1968, limit 1.2185
EUR/CHF - Watching
AUD/USD - Watching
USD/CAD - No change on short 1.0564, stop 1.0495, limit 1.0335.

EUR/USD - No change on short 1.3772, stop 1.3875, limit 1.3485. Will go to weekly chart after this trade is done.
GBP/USD - Watching
USD/JPY - Stopped out on long 122.55. Loss diff 125. Switching to a weekly chart. Entered short on 121.24, stop 123.67, limit 118.70. Original weekly signals would have had me entering anywhere around 123.12 - 123.80. So, I'm a little late entering based on this chart.
EUR/JPY - Stopped out on long 168.90. Loss diff 129. Will stop watching this pair.
USD/CHF - Entered on long 1.2059, stop 1.1963, limit 1.2185.
EUR/CHF - Switched to weekly chart. Watching.
AUD/USD - Watching. May switch to weekly chart.
USD/CAD - No change on short 1.0564, stop 1.0495, limit 1.0335. Price is getting very close to the stop. Which isn't happening on the weekly chart.

EUR/USD - No change on short 1.3772, stop 1.3875, limit 1.3485
GBP/USD - Watching. Looking like a short may be coming.
USD/JPY - No change on long 122.55, stop 121.30, limit 123.57
EUR/JPY - Moved stop on long 168.90, stop 167.61, limit 170.66
USD/CHF - Watching. Might go long on this in the morning.
EUR/CHF - Watching
AUD/USD - Yep, moved my stop too soon. Stopped out on short 1.8731. Loss diff of 79.
USD/CAD - Moved stop on short 1.0564, stop 1.0507, limit 1.0335.

EUR/USD - No change on short 1.3772, stop 1.3875, limit 1.3485
GBP/USD - Watching
USD/JPY - No change on long 122.55, stop 121.30, limit 123.57
EUR/JPY - Moved stop on long 168.90, stop 167.44, limit 170.66
USD/CHF - Watching
EUR/CHF - Watching
AUD/USD - No change on short 1.8731, stop 1.8810, limit 1.8533. Wondering if I moved my stop too soon.
USD/CAD - Moved stop on short 1.0564, stop 1.0527, limit 1.0335.

Forgot to mention I'm testing out fractal signals. Didn't work out so great with the gbp/usd trade.

EUR/USD - Moved stop on short 1.3772, stop 1.3875, limit 1.3485
GBP/USD - Stopped out on short 2.0290. Loss diff 129.
USD/JPY - No change on long 122.55, stop 121.30, limit 123.57
EUR/JPY - Moved stop on long 168.90, stop 167.24, limit 170.66
USD/CHF - Watching
EUR/CHF - Watching
AUD/USD - Entered short on 1.8731, stop 1.8810, limit 1.8533
USD/CAD - Moved stop on short 1.0564, stop 1.0550, limit 1.0335.

EUR/USD - Entered short on 1.3772, stop 1.3918, limit 1.3485
GBP/USD - No change on short 2.0290, stop 2.0419, limit 2.0142
USD/JPY - No change on long 122.55, stop 121.30, limit 123.57
EUR/JPY - Moved stop on long 168.90, stop 167.02, limit 170.66
USD/CHF - Watching
EUR/CHF - Watching
AUD/USD - Watching
USD/CAD - Moved stop on short 1.0564, stop 1.0570, limit 1.0335.

EUR/USD - Watching
GBP/USD - No change on short 2.0290, stop 2.0419, limit 2.0142
USD/JPY - Changed SAR from 0.5 to 0.02. Moved stop on long 122.55, stop 121.30, limit 123.57
EUR/JPY - Moved stop on long 168.90, stop 166.77, limit 170.66
USD/CHF - Watching
EUR/CHF - Watching
AUD/USD - Watching
USD/CAD - Moved stop on short 1.0564, stop 1.0593, limit 1.0335.

EUR/USD - Watching
GBP/USD - Entered short on 2.0290, stop 2.0419, limit 2.0142
USD/JPY - Entered long on 122.55, stop 120.98, limit 123.57
EUR/JPY - Entered long on 168.90, stop 166.51, limit 170.66
USD/CHF - Watching
EUR/CHF - Watching
AUD/USD - Watching
USD/CAD - No change on short 1.0564, stop 1.0610, limit 1.0335.

EUR/USD - Watching
GBP/USD - Watching
USD/JPY - Watching
EUR/JPY - Watching
USD/CHF - Watching
EUR/CHF - Watching
AUD/USD - Watching
USD/CAD - Moved stop on short 1.0564, stop 1.0610, limit 1.0335.

EUR/USD - Limited out on long 1.3634. Profit diff 41. Moved SAR from 0.0646 to 0.03
GBP/USD - Watching. Moved SAR from 0.08 to 0.02
USD/JPY - Watching
EUR/JPY - Ignoring for now
USD/CHF - Watching. Moved SAR from 0.05 to 0.02
EUR/CHF - Watching
AUD/USD - Limited out on long 0.8586. Profit diff 60
USD/CAD - Moved stop on short 1.0564, stop 1.0625, limit 1.0335.

Update: they found the issue with eur/jpy. There was a spike that showed up in both money and demo servers. They only cleared the money server. They did mention that they are looking at why this happened. My question at this point is would they have paid out if I was going short? Would I have taken a loss if going long? Worrisome.

EUR/USD - Moved stop on long 1.3634, short 1.3565, limit 1.3694
GBP/USD - Watching.
USD/JPY - Watching.
EUR/JPY - Ignoring for now.
USD/CHF - Watching.
EUR/CHF - Watching.
AUD/USD - Moved stop on long 0.8586, stop 0.8523, limit 0.8627 (x1/2 ATR).
USD/CAD - Moved stop on short 1.0564, stop 1.0645, limit 1.0335.

EUR/USD - Moved stop on long 1.3634, short 1.3542, limit 1.3694
GBP/USD - Watching.
USD/JPY - Watching.
EUR/JPY - This is starting to look like a demo only issue.
USD/CHF - Watching.
EUR/CHF - Watching.
AUD/USD - Moved stop on long 0.8586, stop 0.8494, limit 0.8627 (x1/2 ATR).
USD/CAD - Moved stop on short 1.0564, stop 1.0669, limit 1.0335.

EUR/USD - Moved stop on long 1.3634, short 1.3515, limit 1.3694
GBP/USD - Stopped out on long 2.0187. Loss diff 65. I'm thinking that the when the SAR flipped on the 6/27 bar that it indicated that the trend would end soon. And that I should not have entered again after taking profit on 7/2. EUR/USD will most likely follow suit. I'll keep the EUR/USD position open to test that.
USD/JPY - Watching.
EUR/JPY - Still no resolution on the screwed up price showing in the chart.
USD/CHF - Stopped out on short 1.2107. Loss diff 86. I'm thinking this is similar to gbp/usd in that the SAR reversing for a bar or two was a sign that the trend would be ending soon. Not sure of that. Think my limits were too far out.
EUR/CHF - Watching.
AUD/USD - Moved stop on long 0.8586, stop 0.8470, limit 0.8627 (x1/2 ATR).
USD/CAD - Moved stop on short 1.0564, stop 1.0686, limit 1.0335.

I'm planning on looking at the weekly and monthly charts as well. In looking at those charts I noticed that while my positions would tie me up for a very long time, it wasn't anywhere as choppy.

EUR/USD - Moved stop on long 1.3634, short 1.3480, limit 1.3694
GBP/USD - Moved stop on long 2.0187, stop 2.0122, limit 2.0251. SAR is kinda close to the price.
USD/JPY - Watching. SAR indicates short, but it is in the price.
EUR/JPY - The fix indicated on the LiteForex BB (right click -> refresh) didn't work. Waiting on response. Note, I'd be calling them up if this was a money account. So I'm not expecting a fast turnaround.
USD/CHF - Moved stop on short 1.2107, stop 1.2193, limit 1.1902 (x3 ATR). The SAR is close to the price on this as well.
EUR/CHF - Was able to move the stop to 1.6556 last night, but was stopped out. Loss diff on short 1.6492 was 64. I'm thinking the last major move was all there was. I'll watch it for a few more bars to determine if I should pull my SAR out further or bring it back in. As it stands SAR is indicating long but 13 day disagrees and both 5 and 8 day are in the price.
AUD/USD - Moved stop on long 0.8586, stop 0.8439, limit 0.8627 (x1/2 ATR).
USD/CAD - Moved stop on short 1.0564, stop 1.0698, limit 1.0335.

4th of July

Taking America for Granted

Our National Alienation & Amnesia

EUR/USD - Moved stop on long 1.3634, short 1.3457, limit 1.3694
GBP/USD - Moved stop on long 2.0187, stop 2.0067, limit 2.0251.
USD/JPY - Watching.
EUR/JPY - Chart is still screwed up on this pair. Left a note on the LiteForex BB.
USD/CHF - Moved stop on short 1.2107, stop 1.2248, limit 1.1902 (x3 ATR).
EUR/CHF - Moved stop on short 1.6492, stop 1.6561, limit 1.6407. Wanted to move stop to 1.6556, but price is too close.
AUD/USD - Moved stop on long 0.8586, stop 0.8418, limit 0.8627 (x1/2 ATR).
USD/CAD - Moved stop on short 1.0564, stop 1.0711, limit 1.0335.

EUR/USD - Limited out on long 1.3546. Profit diff 47. SAR is distant and the Alligator is away from the price. Entered long on 1.3634, short 1.3430, limit 1.3694
GBP/USD - Limited out on long 2.0086. Profit diff 68. SAR moderate distance and the Alligator is away from the price. Entered long on 2.0187, stop 2.0008, limit 2.0251.
USD/JPY - Alligator is still in price. Watching.
EUR/JPY - The 7/2 bar did the same thing as with CMS FX. The 7/2 bar's low is reporting 92.37. This screws the whole chart up. This bothers me a great deal.
USD/CHF - Price is zipping down. Not sure if I should enter. Watching. Based on what I found out with eur/chf, I'll try moving my SAR out on this pair as well. Old SAR was 0.08. New SAR is 0.05. This may be silly, but I'm going to try it. Entered short on 1.2107, stop 1.2333, limit 1.1902 (x3 ATR). I picked x3 ATR for the limit as usd/chf's ATR tends to run higher than eur/chf. Really think that is too much of a limit, but looking at the weekly charts it looks like the trend it down.
EUR/CHF - Switched to short sometime today. Interesting. If I enter a short now, the limit would be 1.6407. One less than the limit I tried last week. This tells me that my SAR of 0.08 might be too close. I'll try a SAR of 0.05. Entered short on 1.6492, stop 1.6572, limit 1.6407.
AUD/USD - Not sure about this but want to test. Entered long on 0.8586, stop 0.8393, limit 0.8627 (x1/2 ATR). 5 & 8 day are away from the price but close enough to warrant the x1/2 ATR. Seems the issue is if the 8 & 13 day are in the price. If I had entered on the 6/29 bar, I could have limited out on a x1.75 ATR (60 at the time).
USD/CAD - Alligator is out of the price but tight. That indicates a x1.5 ATR limit. Entered short on 1.0564, stop 1.0724, limit 1.0335.

EUR/USD - Ended up entering on 6/29 with a long 1.3503, stop 1.3414, limit 1.3527. Limited out with a profit diff of 24. Entered again long on 1.3546, stop 1.3422, limit 3593.
GBP/USD - Limited out on long 2.0024. Profit diff of 46. Entered again long on 2.0086, stop 1.9953, limit 2.0154
USD/JPY & EUR/JPY - Watching.
USD/CHF - Yep, was a pull back. But I ignored the market the other day and missed going short again. Watching.
EUR/CHF - Hmm, this hasn't shown short yet.
AUD/USD - Watching.
USD/CAD - Watching.

Thought - If the price moves strongly in a direction and then just moves horizontal for a few bars, it will pull back or reverse. Not a good time to enter. Moves strongly = (in usd/chf case) something like 120 points.

EUR/USD - Still deciding which way to go.
GBP/USD - Entered on long 2.0024, stop 1.9928, limit 2.0070
USD/JPY & EUR/JPY - Watching.
USD/CHF - Stopped out on short 1.2285. Loss diff 32. I entered after the price was done moving. Watching as I don't know if this is just a pull back.
EUR/CHF - Stopped out on short 1.6542. Loss diff 13. Same as usd/chf, I entered after the price was done.
AUD/USD - Looking again at my last loss on this pair. It wasn't that the 5 & 8 days were close, it was that the 5 day was running through the bars. Watching.
USD/CAD - Stopped out on long 1.0743. Loss diff 74. Same as the ones above, the Alligator was running through the price bars. Needs to be away from the bars.

EUR/USD & GBP/USD - Two bars now with short SAR indicators. But I think this is nothing more than a pull back. Will check again in the morning.
USD/JPY & EUR/JPY - Could have had a profit with a tight limited short. I think these are in the middle of a pull back and not a reverse
USD/CHF - Moved stop on short 1.2285, stop 1.2317, limit 1.2223. At this point, the major move was on the 6/22 bar. Price has moved sideways since then.
EUR/CHF - Moved stop on short 1.6542, stop 1.6555, limit 1.6408. Wanted to move stop to 0.6554, but the price was too close.
AUD/USD - Stopped out on long 0.8426. Profit diff 19. Looking at my notes I have a 1/2 ATR limit if the 5 & 8 days are close. They weren't on 6/18, but they were a few bars before. Need to stop being so sloppy.
USD/CAD - Moved stop on long 1.0743, stop 1.0669, limit 1.0879.

EUR/USD & GBP/USD - Watching.
USD/JPY & EUR/JPY - SAR is indicating short. Alligator is indicating long. I think this may be nothing but a pull back before the long continues. Watching
USD/CHF - Moved stop on short 1.2285, stop 1.2356, limit 1.2223.
EUR/CHF - Moved stop on short 1.6542, stop 1.6596, limit 1.6408.
AUD/USD - Moved stop on long 0.8426, stop 0.8445 (wanted 0.8449 but price is too close). limit 0.8525.
USD/CAD - Moved stop on long 1.0743, stop 1.0665, limit 1.0879.

EUR/USD & GBP/USD - Watching.
USD/JPY - Stopped out on 123.76. Loss diff of 34. Watching.
EUR/JPY - Limited out. Profit diff 98. 13 day is shifting away from the 5 & 8. In the past this means a pull back. Watching.
USD/CHF - Moved stop on short 1.2285, stop 1.2421, limit 1.2223.
EUR/CHF - Moved stop on short 1.6542, stop 1.6637, limit 1.6408.
AUD/USD - Moved stop on long 0.8426, stop 0.8442. limit 0.8525.
USD/CAD - Moved stop on long 1.0743, stop 1.0651, limit 1.0879.

EUR/USD & GBP/USD - Then again, I could be wrong. The 5 and 8 day bowing away from each other looks to be a good sign. The 13 day is still indicating downtrend, so I'll watch a bit more. I'm thinking I could enter now.
USD/JPY - Moved stop on long123.76, stop 123.42, limit 124.34 (1 atr)
EUR/JPY - Still not sure if I should enter again. Price is near it's high. Had I entered, I would set my limit to 167.95. Also, had I entered at the start of this uptrend, I would have taken profit twice on 1 ATR limits. This makes me think a pull back will be coming. Then again, I could be watching a good trade come and go. Ehh.
Update: Entered long 165.68, stop 164.35, limit 166.66.
USD/CHF - Price hasn't pulled back but this looks like a good trade. Entered on short 1.2285, stop 1.2424, limit 1.2223.
EUR/CHF - Limited out. Profit diff 30. Missread my notes. The 1 ATR limit is when the 13 day is close to the price, not against the direction. Should have been a 3.5 ATR. Entered on short 1.6542, stop 1.6645, limit 1.6408.
AUD/USD - Moved stop on long 0.8426, stop 0.8417. limit 0.8525
USD/CAD - Moved stop on long 1.0743, stop 1.0636, limit 1.0879 (1.5 ATR)

EUR/USD - Watching. Looks like a pull back by morning
GBP/USD - Watching. Not showing eur/usd's pullpack yet
USD/JPY - Entered long on 123.76, stop 123.10, limit 124.34 (1 atr)
EUR/JPY - Entered long on 165.68, stop 164.35, limit 166.66 (1 atr). Update: Limited out. Profit diff of 98. I would re-enter, but the price is at its high.
USD/CHF - Moved stop on short 1.2390, stop 1.2431, limit 1.2344. This is looking like it will stop out. Seems a one ATR limit when the 13 day is against is too much. Looks like .75 would have worked. Update: How strange. Price shot down overnight and I hit my limit. Profit diff 46. SAR is too close on this bar to enter another short.
EUR/CHF - Moved stop on short 1.6588, stop 1.6665, limit 1.6408. Update: I just realized that the limit I set was for when the 13 day was going in the right direction (x3.5). That wasn't the case and I changed my limit to 1.6558.
AUD/USD - Moved stop on long 0.8426, stop 0.8394. limit 0.8525
USD/CAD -
Limited out. Profit diff of 81.
Entered long 1.0743, stop 1.0618, limit 1.0879 (1.5 ATR as 5 & 8 day lines are close)

EUR/USD - Watching
GBP/USD - Watching
USD/JPY - Watching
EUR/JPY - Watching
USD/CHF - Moved stop on short 1.2390, stop 1.2443, limit 1.2344
EUR/CHF - A chance to see if my limit ideas work here. Entered short 1.6588, stop 1.6672, limit 1.6408.
AUD/USD - Moved stop on long 0.8426, stop 0.8376. limit 0.8525
USD/CAD - No Change on long 1.0671, stop 1.0614, limit 1.0752.

EUR/USD - Price looks like it is trying to reverse. It looks like I could have hit a profit if I had entered on the 6/15 bar. At that point the 5 and 8 day lines had moved significantly away from each other. That may be the key indicator.

USD/JPY - The 6/14 bar was the start of this uptrend. On that day the SAR was moderately close and the Alligator was tightly bunched. By the 6/19 bar the 5 day had moved away from the other lines. But the price looks to have stalled on that bar. Not sure if there will be a pull back very soon.

GBP/USD - Very much the same activity as eur/usd. However, the price didn't go up as far. But it looks like it wants to continue upwards.

EUR/JPY - Similar to eur/usd as well. Where the 5 day bowed down a good deal on the 6/15 and 6/18 bar. But at that point the price had already shot up a good deal. The best time to have entered was on the 6/14 bar. At that point the SAR looked good (but I've been burned on that before) but the Alligator was tight. So there was no clear sign with the signals I'm using.

USD/CHF - Moved stop on short 1.2390, stop 1.2460, limit 1.2344

EUR/CHF - The 13 day seems to hold more weight on this one. When it is away from the 5 and 8 days the signals look to be good.

AUD/USD -

Moved stop on long 0.8426, stop 0.8355. limit 0.8525

Thought about my loser the other day. I should have entered with a 1.75 ATR limit on the first position. I entered with a one ATR limit and then entered another position with a one ATR limit. If I had entered the first position correctly, I would not have entered the second. As the price was starting to act like a reversal was coming at that point.

USD/CAD - Moved stop on long 1.0671, stop 1.0614, limit 1.0752. This is looking like it will stop out. Think my mistake on this one was entering with a SAR that was so close. Normally a good entry SAR is a bit away from the price

EUR/USD - Alligator is wide but is pointing the opposite direction that the price is going. I'm going to look into trading this and gbp/usd when the SAR and Alligator are in agreement.

USD/JPY - Only the 5 day is moving away from the other lines. Watching.

GBP/USD - Same deal as eur/usd.

EUR/JPY - Watching.

USD/CHF - Entered short 1.2390, stop 1.2466, limit 1.2344

EUR/CHF - Watching.

AUD/USD -

Stoped out on short 0.8353. Loss diff 76

Moved stop on long 0.8426, stop 0.8339. limit 0.8525

USD/CAD - No change on long 1.0671, stop 1.0602, limit 1.0752

Still strongly questioning if I should continue to watch eur/usd and gbp/usd. But, on both I entered when the Alligator was tight. Seem I can get a good one sometimes when it is tight on a few pairs. But the losses tend to be greater. Think if the .75 or .8 ATR limits don't work I'll look at them only when the Alligator has opened up.

EUR/USD - Yeah, a .80 or a .75 ATR for limits on this pair. Stopped out on short 1.3351. Loss diff 15

USD/JPY - Alligator is still tight even though it is moving up well.

GBP/USD - Same deal as eur/usd. Need a .75 or .8 ATR limit. Stopped out on short 1.9675. Loss diff 106

EUR/JPY - Alligator is open but is indicating a short while the price shoots up. Watching.

USD/CHF - Looks like a short will be signaled in the morning. Price didn't hit 1.2494.

EUR/CHF - Looks like it wants to continue up.

AUD/USD - Looks like entering a second was incorrect. SAR has flipped and I would have offset but LiteForex won't let me. "Order too close to market". Guess I'll let it stop out then.

Waiting for short 0.8353, stop 0.8429, limit 0.8276 to die.

Entered long 0.8426, stop 0.8332. limit 0.8525

USD/CAD - Moved stop on long 1.0671, stop 1.0602, limit 1.0752

EUR/USD - Hmmm, maybe a .80 ATR for limits on this pair? That would have hit the limit. Not sure if it is turning around. Moved stop on short 1.3351, stop 1.3366, limit 1.3257

USD/JPY - Waiting for the Alligator to open up.

GBP/USD - Moved stop on short 1.9675, stop 1.9781, limit 1.9603

EUR/JPY - Yep, stopped out. Loss diff 164. Waiting for the Alligator to open up.

USD/CHF - Price still hasn't hit 1.2494. Watching

EUR/CHF - Watching

AUD/USD - Limit hit. Profit diff 63. Hmm, seems I used one ATR when I should have used two. Question now is, should I enter with two ATR limit or one? Think I'll try one. Entered short 0.8353, stop 0.8429, limit 0.8276

USD/CAD - Moved stop on long 1.0671, stop 1.0599, limit 1.0752

So to date, for eur/usd, gbp/usd, usd/jpy, and eur/jpy, I'll not enter a second position in the same direction after limiting out if the Alligator didn't agree with the SAR. That may hold true if the Alligator is all bunched up as well.

EUR/USD - Was four points away from stopping on the last bar. Moved stop on short 1.3351, stop 1.3403, limit 1.3257

USD/JPY - Glad I didn't enter. The price shot up through the SAR point. Not going to touch this until the Alligator opens up.

GBP/USD - Moved stop on short 1.9675, stop 1.9811, limit 1.9603

EUR/JPY -

This is probably going to stop out. I think the usd/jpy rule applies with this pair. I'm not going to enter second position, in the same direction, after limiting out if the first position didn't agree with the Alligator.

Moved stop on short 161.71, stop 163.35, limit 160.95

USD/CHF - Price still hasn't hit 1.2494. Watching

EUR/CHF - Watching

AUD/USD - Moved stop on short 0.8410, stop 0.8451, limit 0.8347.

USD/CAD - Moved stop on long 1.0671, stop 1.0587, limit 1.0752

EUR/USD - Moved stop on short 1.3351, stop 1.3453, limit 1.3257

USD/JPY - Alligator is still all bunched up but SAR is now showing short. Watching

GBP/USD - Not looking great. Moved stop and limit on short 1.9675, stop 1.9847, limit 1.9603

EUR/JPY -

Limit hit, profit diff 99.

Entered short 161.71, stop 163.69, limit 160.95

USD/CHF - Hmm, should have entered. Would have set limit for 1.2494. Watching

EUR/CHF - Watching

AUD/USD - Entered short 0.8410, stop 0.8463, limit 0.8347.

USD/CAD - Entered long 1.0671, stop 1.0575, limit 1.0752

EUR/USD - Moved stop on short 1.3351, stop 1.3489, limit 1.3257

USD/JPY - Alligator is all bunched up but SAR is indicating long. Watching

GBP/USD - Moved stop on short 1.9675, stop 1.9891, limit 1.9531

EUR/JPY - Moved stop on short 162.52, stop 163.92, limit 161.53. Price action forming a triangle.

USD/CHF and EUR/CHF - Price continues upwards, but isn't near the limit that would have been set if I entered.

AUD/USD - Watching

USD/CAD - May be getting ready for a short.

EUR/USD - Entered short on 1.3351, stop 1.3515, limit 1.3257

USD/JPY - Alligator is all bunched up but SAR is indicating long. Watching

GBP/USD - Entered short on 1.9675, stop 1.9942, limit 1.9531

EUR/JPY - Moved stop on short 162.52, stop 164.18, limit 161.53

USD/CHF - Presently looks like an exaggerated version of eur/chf.

EUR/CHF -

Stopped out on 1.6467. Loss diff of 35.

Not sure what to make of it right now. SAR is indicating up but Alligator doesn't agree.

AUD/USD - SAR is again indicating short. But I don't think so.

USD/CAD - SAR is indicating up but Alligator doesn't agree. Watching

For EUR/USD and GBP/USD, don't go for another position in the same direction after limit is hit if the 13 day is against.

Update:
Real tempted to drop all the very volatile pairs.

I've noticed, and been able to catch with a close limit, some SAR indicated pull backs. But it is starting to look like I fail as often as succeed. The indicators might be good for where the price is headed over a given week, but the pull backs stop me out. That is even with setting the SAR far from the price.

EUR/USD -

Large reverse stopped me out. Price is through the SAR point. It'll flip over in the morning.

Stopped out on long 1.3517. Loss diff 86.

Watching for now. Tempted to go short, but both this pair and GBP/USD have been giving me fits recently. Might just drop them if this continues.

Update:
A short last night would have hit limit successfully. Huge drop in price.

USD/JPY -

Moved stop on short 120.96 to 121.56, limit 120.33

Update:
Stopped out on short 120.96. Loss diff 60.

No indication of pull back. This might be another one where I set one position and wait until a reverse comes before taking another one.

GBP/USD -

I was correct, the price did pull back.

Also, this pair is like an exaggerated version of EUR/USD. Should look at both to get an idea of how they both will move.

I think there may be a good short coming up but both EUR/USD and this pair are starting to irritate me.

Update:
A short last night would have hit limit successfully. Huge drop in price.

EUR/JPY -

Limit hit on short 163.31. Profit diff 83.

Entered follow-on short 162.52, stop 164.47, limit 161.53

Update:
Not sure if I should offset now with no loss or wait it out. I'll wait it out for now.

USD/CHF -

Moved stop on short 1.2180 to 1.2288, limit 1.2124

Not looking good... this might be another take a profit and wait for the reverse pair. But, EUR/CHF is looking ok.

Update:
Huge reverse.

Stopped out on short 1.2180. Loss diff 87.

EUR/CHF -

Moved stop on short 1.6467 to 1.6502, limit 1.6405

Update:
Large reverse. Will most likely be stopped out. Should offset, but I'm trying to determine if I should stop watching some pairs.

AUD/USD -

Price was backtracking in the morning and I left it alone. SAR is even closer and I'll continue to watch.

Update:
SAR has flipped to the short side. Tempted to go short. But I'm a bit uncertain based on how strong the Alligator is indicating a long.

USD/CAD -

And I stopped out on short at 1.0608. Loss diff of 29.

Reasonable loss.... think I may have got this pair figured....a bit.

Alligator shows stong downtrend and SAR, while showing uptrend, is very close to the price action. I'll check again in the morning.

Update:
Moved up pretty good overnight, but has pulled halfway back. Still watching.

Forgot to post the other day.

USD/JPY shows the direction that EUR/JPY will take.

Also, don't enter USD/JPY when 5 day is in the price action.

I'm also thinking that a tight limit on pairs where the Alligator doesn't agree with the SAR gets around the issue where a few pairs do most of their moving in the wee hours.

EUR/USD -

Limit hit on long 1.3492. Profit diff 31.

Entered long 1.3517, stop 1.3413, limit 1.3611 on 6/5 and moved stop to 1.3431 today.

USD/JPY -

Stopped out on long 122.02. Loss diff of 47.

Entered short 120.96, stop 121.92, limit 120.33

I'm using a full ATR here. Seems the big issue is when the 5 day is in the price action.

GBP/USD - Priceline didn't move between 6/5 and 6/6 bars. This seems to mean the price is going to pull back again. Alligator is still very tight.

EUR/JPY -

Should have known that USD/JPY leads this by a day or so.

Considering the price is very near the new bar's SAR and that USD/JPY is showing short, I will offset.

Offset 163.69. Loss diff of 35.

No short SAR on this pair yet. Will check again in the morning.

Update:
Well, that was quick. Checked in at 10pm to see how things were going and saw the SAR had flipped over to short.

Entered short 163.31, stop 164.59, limit 162.48

Using full ATR on limit for this pair.

USD/CHF -

Entered short 1.2180, stop 1.2315, limit 1.2124 on 6/6 bar and moved stop to 1.2288 today

EUR/CHF -

Entered short 1.6467, stop 1.6549, limit 1.6405 on 6/6 bar and moved stop to 1.6529 today

AUD/USD -

Entered long 0.8376, stop 0.8286, limit 0.8430 on 6/6.

It hit its limit this morning. Profit diff 54.

Entered long 0.8430, stop 0.8286, limit 0.8454 this morning. Moved stop to 0.8336 just now.

Alligator widening up.

Update:
Limit hit on 0.8430. Profit offset of 24.

Didn't re-enter at 10pm. SAR is 63 below the current low, which is the size of one grid box currently. The SAR pattern from the start of this uptrend is hard to figure. I've seen one instance where it isn't too close and the price continues on and 3-4 instances where the price pulls back enough that the SAR will flip to the short side before continuing up.

Will reassess in the morning

USD/CAD -

Moved stop on short at 1.0608 to 1.0637, limit 1.0135.

SAR is tight to price, but it seems to do that on this pair. Alligator is wide and showing good downtrend.

I'm thinking I should make use of closer limits when the SAR is good but the Alligator isn't in agreement.

EUR/USD -

Projected Alligator indicates a long and SAR agrees. Current Alligator is still showing short.

I'll enter with a one ATR limit.

Entered long 1.3492, stop 1.3392, limit 1.3523 (subtracted spread)

Trying something a little different. Took the ATR of the last bar as the current bar is unformed and based the limit off of the high of the 6/1 bar (two back).

This might be too conservative, but I've been pretty loose for the past month.

USD/JPY -

Moved stop on long 122.02 to 121.55, and limit 122.33.

SAR and 5 day are very close to the price. I'm not at all sure this was a good entry.

Maybe set the limit to half the ATR when the Alligator doesn't look so good on this pair?

GBP/USD - Alligator is tightly intertwined, but SAR is good. If I set a limit based on one ATR, it would have been hit already. I think I'm going to wait until the Alligator isn't so intertwined.

EUR/JPY -

Moved stop on 163.69 to 162.76, limit 165.01.

Wondering if this pair needs the half ATR for when the 5 and 8 days are so close.

USD/CHF - Watching. Looks like it wants to go short.

EUR/CHF - Watching. Looks like it wants to go short.

AUD/USD - Ignored this morning due to the Alligator showing short. Think it is going strong long. May enter in the morning.

USD/CAD -

Limit hit on 1.0829. Profit diff of 235.

Moved stop on short at 1.0608 to 1.0709, limit 1.0135.

Confirmed: Limit doesn't activate until spread difference is met.

My usd/cad limit is for 1.0598 and the low today was 1.0595. Liteforex offers a 4pt spread on that pair. I'll move my limits accordingly.

I may look into close limits for cases where the SAR, Alligator, and ATR are not in agreement. I mentioned this before, but have not had time to look into it.

USD/CHF is another pair who's action moves strongly in the morning and positions shouldn't be moved/modified in the evening.

EUR/USD - Watching. SAR and Alligator aren't in agreement. But ATR is rising.

USD/JPY -

Watching. 5 day is still running close and there is a slight rise in ATR. Might be good for long on Sunday or Monday.

Update:
Entered long 122.02, stop 121.44, and limit 122.33.

GBP/USD - Watching. Alligator is tightly intertwined, but SAR is good. Also, price is moving contrary to the priceline. For this pair, that is a bad sign.

EUR/JPY - I'll move stop and limit on Sunday at market open. Limit will be moved to 165.01 to take into account what I learned about LiteForex and its limits. Presently no change on long 163.69. stop 162.48, and limit 165.05.

Update:
Moved stop and limit on 163.69. Stop to 162.57 and limit to 165.01.

5 and 8 day are still intertwined.

USD/CHF -

There was a tremendus upsurge in price in the morning.

Stopped out on short 1.2250. Loss diff of 51.

Limit needs to be modified for when the Alligator isn't in agreement with SAR. Like maybe a 1/2 ATR.

EUR/CHF - This reversed strongly like USD/CHF. The full ATR limit would have worked on this pair though.

AUD/USD - Price is continuing strongly upwards. Might be worth a look Monday morning.

USD/CAD -

Price hit a low of 1.0595. This confirms my suspicion that the price must go past the limit by the amount of the spread before it activates with LiteForex.

Will move limit to 1.0594 at market open on Sunday.

At present it looks like it will continue down strongly though.

Update:
Moved stop on short 1.0829 to 1.0762, limit 1.0594.

Considering that this pair should have limited out on Friday, I'll enter another short.

Entered short at 1.0608, stop 1.0762, limit 1.0135 (139 before subtracting the spread).